From books-owner Wed May 1 00:21:37 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA53768 for books-outgoing; Wed, 1 May 1996 00:21:37 GMT Received: from homer04.u.washington.edu (rstaffel@homer04.u.washington.edu [140.142.76.11]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA15875 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 20:21:33 -0400 Received: from localhost by homer04.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW96.04/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA66800; Tue, 30 Apr 96 17:23:02 -0700 Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 17:23:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Rebecca Staffel Cc: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Subject: Re: please read this now. (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199604302332.TAA12180@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk Hi everybody -- While I am certainly *not* any kind of fan of neoNazis or white supremists or even "white-power" music (what could that be??? Barry Manilow?), I gotta defend everyone's right to free speech. Don't like the newsgroup? Don't go there. Many other folks (including those who wrote the Bill of Rights!) have made the free speech argument more eloquently than I can right now (heck, we've probably all done a paper or a speech on it, right?), so I'll stop. You get the picture. That said, it's even more important that you know that this email has been sent around for a few months now. This is the third or fourth time I've seen it, kinda like the "Good Times Virus." It was even on NPR in March. As far as I know, the voting ended on March 18. I couldn't find any results after a quick search on Altavista, but I bet it didn't pass. The original proposal is at . And since this is the "Cultures of the Book" class: what does this say about our belief in the power of the written word? The fact that so many (probably well intentioned) people would spend some amount of time and energy to suppress other people's writing surely speaks to its phenomenal power. Was Plato scared of Lysias' power over Phaedrus? Hmmm... That's it. Thanks for your time. Rebecca Staffel University of Washington From books-owner Wed May 1 00:25:53 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA54006 for books-outgoing; Wed, 1 May 1996 00:25:52 GMT Received: from homer04.u.washington.edu (rstaffel@homer04.u.washington.edu [140.142.76.11]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA29413 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 20:25:45 -0400 Received: from localhost by homer04.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW96.04/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA56659; Tue, 30 Apr 96 17:27:08 -0700 Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 17:27:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Rebecca Staffel To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Subject: Re: please read this now. (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk On Tue, 30 Apr 1996, Rebecca Staffel wrote: > Was Plato scared of Lysias' power over Phaedrus? Hmmm... Whoops, I meant Socrates, of course. Duh. Too many papers, too little time. From books-owner Sat May 4 05:00:44 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA31169 for books-outgoing; Sat, 4 May 1996 05:00:43 GMT Received: from mail1.sas.upenn.edu (smfriedm@MAIL1.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.32]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA10172 for ; Sat, 4 May 1996 01:00:40 -0400 Received: (from smfriedm@localhost) by mail1.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.4/SAS 8.05) id BAA05341 for books@ccat; Sat, 4 May 1996 01:02:07 -0400 (EDT) From: smfriedm@sas.upenn.edu (s. morgan friedman) Posted-Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 01:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605040502.BAA05341@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: post urls of projects? To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 01:02:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk i was just wondering if you all would like to post the URLs of your projects (if you are doing a web page) to the class listserv once you have completed your project. or, instead, how about jod compiling the URLs into a list and adding the list to his cultures.html page? and maybe he can include on the list the URLs of the projects people did for the course in the semester at "u dub" (university of washington) ... i know that once i'm done with my project, i would love to see the end result of everyone else's endeavors! steve ______________________ steven morgan friedman http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~smfriedm Mean People Suck From books-owner Mon May 6 20:31:26 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA78267 for books-outgoing; Mon, 6 May 1996 20:31:25 GMT Received: from central.cis.upenn.edu (CENTRAL.CIS.UPENN.EDU [158.130.12.2]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA76979 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 16:31:21 -0400 Received: from pixmap.seas.upenn.edu (sameerm@PIXMAP.SEAS.UPENN.EDU [130.91.4.104]) by central.cis.upenn.edu (8.6.12/UPenn 1.4) with ESMTP id QAA24719 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 16:32:48 -0400 Received: (from sameerm@localhost) by pixmap.seas.upenn.edu (8.6.10) id QAA01996 for books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu; Mon, 6 May 1996 16:32:46 -0400 Posted-Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 16:32:46 -0400 Message-Id: <199605062032.QAA01996@pixmap.seas.upenn.edu> Subject: post urls of projects? To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (CLST 158 listserv) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 16:32:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Sameer Y. Merchant" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 706 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk Mine's at http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~sameerm/geek.html. It's currently incomplete & inaccessible, but it should be up shortly. Sameer : : i was just wondering if you all would like to post the URLs of your : projects (if you are doing a web page) to the class listserv once you : have completed your project. or, instead, how about jod compiling the : URLs into a list and adding the list to his cultures.html page? and maybe : he can include on the list the URLs of the projects people did for the : course in the semester at "u dub" (university of washington) ... : : i know that once i'm done with my project, i would love to see the end : result of everyone else's endeavors! : : steve : From books-owner Mon May 6 21:37:47 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA74138 for books-outgoing; Mon, 6 May 1996 21:37:46 GMT Received: from mail1.sas.upenn.edu (pasterna@MAIL1.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.32]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA78229 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 17:37:44 -0400 Received: (from pasterna@localhost) by mail1.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.4/SAS 8.05) id RAA05157; Mon, 6 May 1996 17:39:09 -0400 (EDT) From: pasterna@sas.upenn.edu (Karen E Pasternack) Posted-Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 17:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605062139.RAA05157@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: post urls of projects? To: sameerm@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Sameer Y. Merchant) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 17:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Cc: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu In-Reply-To: <199605062032.QAA01996@pixmap.seas.upenn.edu> from "Sameer Y. Merchant" at May 6, 96 04:32:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk Mine is http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~pasterna/cyberlove.html Or you can go to my homepage and get to it from there... The essay is finished, but I am still working on a page of links to go along with the essay- that page is under construction. -- Karen Pasternack University of Pennsylvania '98 215-417-0553 Minority Affairs Beat Reporter Daily Pennsylvanian 898-6585 From books-owner Mon May 6 23:49:41 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA14431 for books-outgoing; Mon, 6 May 1996 23:48:44 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (smfriedm@MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA77913 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 19:48:41 -0400 Received: (from smfriedm@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.4/SAS 8.05) id TAA20770 for books@ccat; Mon, 6 May 1996 19:50:07 -0400 (EDT) From: smfriedm@sas.upenn.edu (s. morgan friedman) Posted-Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 19:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605062350.TAA20770@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: re: post urls of projects? To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 19:50:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk just for fun and for my convenience, as we all send the url's of our projects to the class listserv, i'm keeping a list of them at: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~morgan/penn/jod.html you can get to my project (which is not yet complete) from that page. still procrastinating on studying for tomorrow's exam, steve ______________________ steven morgan friedman http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~smfriedm Mean People Suck From books-owner Tue May 7 00:03:47 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA23677 for books-outgoing; Tue, 7 May 1996 00:03:46 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (dcasteel@MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA07800 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 20:03:43 -0400 Received: (from dcasteel@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.4/SAS 8.05) id UAA25994 for books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu; Mon, 6 May 1996 20:05:09 -0400 (EDT) From: dcasteel@sas.upenn.edu (The Goddess) Posted-Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 20:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605070005.UAA25994@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: URL To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (books) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 20:05:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk mine's at http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~dcasteel/WEBinequity.html nothing's there yet...so don't go thinkin' you'll find something... later, Di -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>########################<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< "...and every time a child says 'I don't believe in fairies,' there is a fairy somewhere that falls down dead." -Peter Pan Diane Casteel http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~dcasteel CAS, English 1998 NEC Vice-Chair for Nominations Houston Hall Marketing Coordinator In the event of a change in air pressure, hold your breath >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>#########################<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< From books-owner Wed May 8 03:27:53 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA36864 for books-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 03:27:43 GMT Received: from central.cis.upenn.edu (CENTRAL.CIS.UPENN.EDU [158.130.12.2]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA58106 for ; Tue, 7 May 1996 23:27:38 -0400 Received: from red.seas.upenn.edu (sameerm@RED.SEAS.UPENN.EDU [130.91.5.147]) by central.cis.upenn.edu (8.6.12/UPenn 1.4) with ESMTP id XAA07385 for ; Tue, 7 May 1996 23:29:05 -0400 Received: by red.seas.upenn.edu id XAA02677; Tue, 7 May 1996 23:29:04 -0400 Posted-Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:29:04 -0400 Message-Id: <199605080329.XAA02677@red.seas.upenn.edu> Subject: Hmm... To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (CLST 158 listserv) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:29:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Sameer Y. Merchant" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 354 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk From: http://www2.USNews.com/usnews/fair/gbpart.htm ``Students tend to be much more bold in cyberspace,'' says Prof. Judith Blumenthal, who teaches an entrepreneurship course via computer at the University of Southern California's part-time program. ``They take stronger positions; they disagree and argue.'' --- Yeah right! Any thoughts? :) Sameer From books-owner Wed May 8 03:31:20 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA58051 for books-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 03:31:18 GMT Received: from central.cis.upenn.edu (CENTRAL.CIS.UPENN.EDU [158.130.12.2]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA72891 for ; Tue, 7 May 1996 23:31:13 -0400 Received: from red.seas.upenn.edu (sameerm@RED.SEAS.UPENN.EDU [130.91.5.147]) by central.cis.upenn.edu (8.6.12/UPenn 1.4) with ESMTP id XAA07476 for ; Tue, 7 May 1996 23:32:40 -0400 Received: by red.seas.upenn.edu id XAA03046; Tue, 7 May 1996 23:32:39 -0400 Posted-Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:32:39 -0400 Message-Id: <199605080332.XAA03046@red.seas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: Think of the Internet as a highway. (fwd) To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (CLST 158 listserv) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:32:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Sameer Y. Merchant" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 9825 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk Oops, forgot to Cc this to the rest of y'all. Sorry for the double Sarah. Sameer ------ Subject: Re: Think of the Internet as a highway. (fwd) To: snorman@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sarah Norman) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 19:38:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Sameer Y. Merchant" Once upon a time, Sarah Norman said: : Random thing that made me think of y'all. (grin) : > "Think of the Internet as a highway." Or as a library. Sameer --- From: jblumen@interramp.com Date: Sun, 21 Apr 96 16:07:26 PDT Subject: The Internet is a library To: fight-censorship+@andrew.cmu.edu SEX, LAWS AND CYBERSPACE BULLETIN No. 1 April 20, 1996 This is the first in an occasional series of essays from Jonathan Wallace and Mark Mangan, the authors of Sex, Laws and Cyberspace, (SLAC) a new book from Henry Holt on Internet censorship and the Communications Decency Act. We will send three or four pieces of mail a month on focused, factual topics relating to the federal government's attempt to regulate the Net. If you wish to receive the SLAC bulletin, please send mail to co-author Mark Mangan at markm@bway.net. THE INTERNET IS A LIBRARY by Jonathan Wallace jblumen@spectacle.org The Internet is the latest in a series of communications revolutions that have initially baffled legislators and judges, who must select the correct analogy to apply in writing new laws, or interpreting old ones. To pick just one example, when the telephone was introduced, courts struggled with the question whether it was simply a new form of telegraph, or something else entirely. Today, policy makers are asking what the correct analogy is for the Internet. The Communications Decency Act (CDA), and its supporters on the religious right and elsewhere, have a quick answer for the question: the Internet is no different than a broadcast medium, like the radio or TV, and should be governed in the same strict way. The language of the CDA was, in fact, borrowed from FCC regulations pertaining to broadcast. The correct analogy is something far different: the Internet is a vast library, containing every type of information known to humans. We can learn a great deal about the way that legislators and judges should deal with the Net by examining the way that libraries function. A constant criticism levelled at the Internet by CDA proponents is that explicit sexual information is far more freely available to minors there than in a bookstore or library. This sounds reasonable, but is completely untrue. While free speech proponents have heard this statement many times while maintaining an uncomfortable silence, a look at the actual policies of librarians confirms that most do not consider it their job to police what children read. Instead, the child's parent decides whether or not the child is to have a library card and is responsible for supervising what a child takes out from the library. One of the most persuasive witnesses to testify in ACLU v. Reno, the lawsuit against the CDA currently pending in federal court in Philadelphia, was Robert B. Croneberger, Director of Pittsburgh's Carnegie Library. (The American Library Association, of which Croneberger is a member, is also a plaintiff in the case.) He testified that the library currently has 277,000 cardholders, one third of them minors. Croneberger said in the affidavit he filed with the court: "It is the mission of the Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh to provide the widest array of information to the widest possible audience--both adults and minors. To that end, the library makes no distinctions between patrons on the basis of age. The library does not offer separate library cards for adults and children and the library does not place restrictions on what minors can read, use or borrow in the library." He observed that the librarian is not competent to judge what children are mature enough to read. "Age must not be a restriction imposed by anyone except the parents of a child, who can judge the maturity of that child." In court, responding to the government's cross-examination, Croneberger elaborated: "If we as librarians are put in a position of making decisions for other people's children, we would fail miserably." Croneberger testified that some libraries have created a separate type of library card for juveniles, but that most have not. Within days after his testimony in court, I spotted the following in The Brooklyn Heights Paper, my community newspaper: "After months of wrangling, the Brooklyn Public Library has finally decided to give an inch in the debate over whether minors should be allowed access to R-rated videos. "The new policy, adopted by the BPL board earlier this month, will allow parents to obtain restricted library cards for children younger than 13 years of age. The card would prohibit children from borrowing any adult material, be it movies, research material, or Shakespeare's plays." The contrast to the CDA is interesting. Nobody is burning any books, or even removing them from the library shelves. Instead, the library will continue to contain every conceivable kind of information, including works on sex. Some libraries--like the Brooklyn Public library--will simply not let children with the juvenile card take these works out. Most libraries, as Croneberger testified, will let children look at anything, once their parents have decided to allow them to have a library card. The CDA is a book-burning law. The prison terms and fines it provides for are very specific, while its defenses--that an information provider tried to use "reasonable and effective" means to prevent children from accessing the material--are very vague. This means that a provider feeling the chilling effect of the law is much safer deleting information from the Internet (the equivalent of burning a book) than relying on a vague defense. Nevertheless, CDA proponents point to the "reasonable and effective" measures defense as proof that the CDA, like the Brooklyn Public Library's new rule, merely governs who can receive material, but does not lead to its destruction. However, all prior indecency laws are extremely specific about their "safe harbors". Television and radio can safely broadcast indecent material after ten p.m. 900 line providers need not fear prosecution so long as they take a credit card from the caller. While the CDA calls for providers of commercial information to take credit cards or set up passworded accounts, nothing in the CDA spells out anything else a provider of free online information can do to avoid getting in trouble. Advocates of the CDA want to have it both ways. Even as they argue to the Philadelphia court that the vague safe harbor makes the CDA a "narrowly tailored" law, and therefore constitutional, they have been loud and insistent that no form of regulation short of electronic "book-burning" will protect minors. Senators James Exon, Dan Coats and Charles Grassley--the CDA's three biggest Senate advocates--repeatedly said during the Senate debate in June 1995 that children could outwit any technical protection available. Neatly summarizing these arguments is the following excerpt from a FAQ distributed by Reverend Donald Wildmon's American Family Association: "Q: Aren't there 'technical fixes' that are less intrusive than a regulatory or criminal law approach? "A: No. To date, only a few software programs have been released to regulate children's access to pornography, such as SurfWatch and NetNanny. Also, these programs can be bypassed by users with a good knowledge of the Internet and some technical sophistication. Even if better technical solutions become available, this approach is inadequate in and of itself because: children can walk down the street to another computer; parents' technical ability often pales in comparison to their children's expertise; pornographers aren't legally discouraged from peddling their materials to children." Rather than listening to what CDA proponents tell us, or tell the court, we should listen to what they tell one another. Prosecutors will later argue that virtually any form of control used by information providers was not "reasonable" or "effective", thus sending them to prison despite their extensive efforts to seek a safe harbor. The CDA was invented by people who believe that some books should also be banned. The day the CDA passed, Senator Coats indiscreetly commented that certain portions of Catcher in the Rye would (and should) be illegal under the new law if posted online. The CDA's most vocal proponents on the religious right have been involved in numerous efforts to ban books from school libraries. If the Philadelphia court fails to recognize that the Internet is a vast library, it will open the door to radical censorship. It will also allow a preposterous distinction to be drawn between text on paper and electronic text, between Catcher in the Rye in your library and on the Internet. But if the judges apply the right analogy and recognize that the Internet is a library, they will ensure the survival of the fearless freedom of speech into the 21st century. Resources: The ACLU, http://www.aclu.org Center for Democracy and Technology, http://www.cdt.org Voters' Telecommunications Watch, http://www.vtw.org Wallace and Mangan report on ACLU v. Reno, http://www.spectacle.org/cda/cdamn.html Sex, Laws and Cyberspace, http://www.spectacle.org/freespch/ ----------------------------- Jonathan Wallace The Ethical Spectacle http://www.spectacle.org ACLU v. Reno plaintiff http://www.spectacle.org/cda/cdamn.html Co-author, Sex, Laws and Cyberspace (Henry Holt, 1996) http://www.spectacle.org/freespch/ Free speech absolutist--and proud to be ------------------------------------- From books-owner Wed May 8 03:34:35 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA16560 for books-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 03:34:34 GMT Received: (from jod@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA58527; Tue, 7 May 1996 23:34:30 -0400 From: "James O'Donnell" Message-Id: <199605080334.XAA58527@ccat.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: Think of the Internet as a highway. (fwd) To: sameerm@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Sameer Y. Merchant) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:34:29 -0400 (EDT) Cc: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu In-Reply-To: <199605080332.XAA03046@red.seas.upenn.edu> from "Sameer Y. Merchant" at May 7, 96 11:32:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 450 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk Only trouble with that image is that nobody *picked* what goes into the Internet: when you go into a real library, there's a guiding intelligence that selects and organizes. If it's a small public library, you have an idea what you can find there; if it's a small library in an elementary school, ditto; and if it's Van Pelt, ditto big time -- quality resides in the consistency of the choices. The Internet is a wilderness of riches. jo'd From books-owner Wed May 8 03:55:36 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA92549 for books-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 03:55:35 GMT Received: from central.cis.upenn.edu (CENTRAL.CIS.UPENN.EDU [158.130.12.2]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA84094; Tue, 7 May 1996 23:55:32 -0400 Received: from red.seas.upenn.edu (sameerm@RED.SEAS.UPENN.EDU [130.91.5.147]) by central.cis.upenn.edu (8.6.12/UPenn 1.4) with ESMTP id XAA08067; Tue, 7 May 1996 23:56:58 -0400 Received: by red.seas.upenn.edu id XAA05870; Tue, 7 May 1996 23:56:57 -0400 Posted-Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:56:57 -0400 Message-Id: <199605080356.XAA05870@red.seas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: Think of the Internet as a highway. (fwd) To: jod@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (James O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:56:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Sameer Y. Merchant" Cc: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (CLST 158 listserv) In-Reply-To: <199605080334.XAA58527@ccat.sas.upenn.edu> from "James O'Donnell" at May 7, 96 11:34:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1305 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk True. Of course, what you would find in a small public library in say, California, would probably be different from what you might find in a small public library in say, Saudi Arabia. A resident from either place might be quite surprised by what he/she would find in a public library in the other. With the World Wide Web, the difference is that you don't have any geographical boundaries (how many times has this been said before?). It's as if someone took a couple of books from each of those public libraries and put them all together in one place. If Internet access in SA could be restricted to sites in SA, there would be fewer surprises. Of course, the presence of a single, unregulated 'deviant' with a home page could have 'unpleasant' results for the rest of the community, only it would be less likely. Sameer : : Only trouble with that image is that nobody *picked* what goes into the : Internet: when you go into a real library, there's a guiding : intelligence that selects and organizes. If it's a small public library, : you have an idea what you can find there; if it's a small library in an : elementary school, ditto; and if it's Van Pelt, ditto big time -- quality : resides in the consistency of the choices. The Internet is a wilderness : of riches. : : jo'd : From books-owner Wed May 8 04:11:13 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA26200 for books-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 04:11:12 GMT Received: (from jod@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA57168 for books; Wed, 8 May 1996 00:11:08 -0400 From: "James O'Donnell" Message-Id: <199605080411.AAA57168@ccat.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: libraries To: books Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 00:11:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 256 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk The Internet is more like what happens if every traveler arriving at JFK airport were frisked and all books taken away from them. Each one *chose* them, but the collection would make no sense. THAT's not a library, not in any way shape or form! jo'd From books-owner Wed May 8 04:16:02 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA83579 for books-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 04:16:01 GMT Received: from central.cis.upenn.edu (CENTRAL.CIS.UPENN.EDU [158.130.12.2]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA58482 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 00:15:58 -0400 Received: from widget.seas.upenn.edu (sameerm@WIDGET.SEAS.UPENN.EDU [130.91.4.103]) by central.cis.upenn.edu (8.6.12/UPenn 1.4) with ESMTP id AAA08584 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 00:17:24 -0400 Received: (from sameerm@localhost) by widget.seas.upenn.edu (8.6.10) id AAA22291 for books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu; Wed, 8 May 1996 00:17:22 -0400 Posted-Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 00:17:22 -0400 Message-Id: <199605080417.AAA22291@widget.seas.upenn.edu> Subject: Far-fetched idea To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (CLST 158 listserv) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 00:17:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Sameer Y. Merchant" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 776 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk A thought about possible future expressive powers of electronic media: I recently received/saw a couple of (e)messages where people used the following HTML tags: (for grin) So maybe when we write messages in the future, we could add these tags and the recipient could have the message read out to him/her at the other end (using a Netscape-compatible browser) and hear the sarcasm. Of course, we would need to allow for parameters. For instance, maybe we could use if you're sort of half-joking/kidding, and if you really want to lay it on. Of course, this is all assuming that email hasn't been made obsolete. Any thoughts about how to go about integrating visual cues, e.g. the ? Sameer :) From books-owner Wed May 8 12:47:13 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA94696 for books-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 12:47:12 GMT Received: from dept.english.upenn.edu (DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU [165.123.12.191]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA83678 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 08:47:07 -0400 Received: (from snorman@localhost) by dept.english.upenn.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) id IAA66346 for books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu; Wed, 8 May 1996 08:54:15 -0400 From: Sarah Norman Message-Id: <199605081254.IAA66346@dept.english.upenn.edu> Subject: URL and a thought To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Book Class) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 08:54:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk Hi, everybody! My URL (semi-up at this moment) is http://www.english.upenn.edu/~snorman/cult/intro.html; it's also accessible through my page. WARNING: it DOES, indeed contain and have links to pornograghy. (But before you decide to go there based on THAT fact, let me warn you that it's pretty bad pornography.) And from the "What color is *your* library card" Dept.: It's interesting to me to note just how much of societal control issues are tied up in our visual selves -- i.e., the "On the internet, nobody knows your a saint/dog" issue. If I can write intelligently (and that's a big "if" (grin)) to you over email, and seem to be have the ability to make decisions, then you will probably assume that I have adult status -- you might never ask my age. But if you were to *see* me and I looked like a child, it would never matter how well I spoke, reasoned or presented myself. Communication that can function in non-visual or auditory forms seems to threaten existing social ideas about how the visual body controls the mind . . . From books-owner Wed May 8 17:40:10 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA77166 for books-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 17:40:04 GMT Received: from central.cis.upenn.edu (CENTRAL.CIS.UPENN.EDU [158.130.12.2]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA73317 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 13:40:00 -0400 Received: from red.seas.upenn.edu (mniaz@RED.SEAS.UPENN.EDU [130.91.5.147]) by central.cis.upenn.edu (8.6.12/UPenn 1.4) with ESMTP id NAA28118 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 13:41:26 -0400 Received: by red.seas.upenn.edu id NAA15547; Wed, 8 May 1996 13:41:25 -0400 Posted-Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 13:41:25 -0400 Message-Id: <199605081741.NAA15547@red.seas.upenn.edu> Subject: Internet is *god* To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 13:41:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "SALMAN NIAZ" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1326 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk Disclaimer: In no way is this meant to offend or challenge the beliefs of some. This is merely to provoke thought. While we are on the topic of making an analogy for internet, why don't we try to characterize the powers and capabilities of it before we put a *label* on it. Well, before i go on, i would like invite all of us to add any idiosyncracy of the net that can be thought of. Internet is all-knowing. It is fair to say, internet is bringing together all the knowledge of all humans together. Could it be that one day, when we need confirmation of known knowledge or want more knowledge, we turn to internet. I wouldn't like to think but... Internet effects, or in the near future, will effect everyone's life. People would be exposed to it, and as it seems, will start depending on it. Internet will be the base which would introduce *all* religions to us. (if you don't belive me try the religion homepage on yahoo or lycos) For those of us who have been exposed to different religions, can safely say that every religion teaches us good as opposed to bad and provides us with an "image" to pray to- the "image" seems to be a common thread in all and we all, in our understanding, call him god. Could internet be it for the next generations. To be contd... I will be appending this post soon sn From books-owner Wed May 8 21:16:04 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA86187 for books-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 21:16:03 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (smfriedm@MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA90005 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 17:15:58 -0400 Received: (from smfriedm@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.4/SAS 8.05) id RAA21157; Wed, 8 May 1996 17:17:22 -0400 (EDT) From: smfriedm@sas.upenn.edu (s. morgan friedman) Posted-Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 17:17:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605082117.RAA21157@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: Internet is *god* To: mniaz@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (SALMAN NIAZ) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 17:17:22 -0400 (EDT) Cc: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu In-Reply-To: <199605081741.NAA15547@red.seas.upenn.edu> from "SALMAN NIAZ" at May 8, 96 01:41:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk Failing not to be unsuccessful in not being unclear, SALMAN NIAZ wrote: * * Internet is all-knowing. It is fair to say, internet is bringing together * all the knowledge of all humans together. i must challenge these assertions. there is, i maintain, very little information on the internet. there are many classic books (well, those whose copyrights have expired) and tons of computer-related information, and a little bit other useful stuff. in the great scheme of things, this is very little information. so what is all this on the internet we're always hearing about? tons of truly useless pages. people listing all their CDs. people with personal homepages babbling about everything (everyone loves to hear themselves speak, and personal homepages give the illusion of an audience). tons of pornography. tons of shit. the question is: is there more "content" being put on the internet, or is the trend for more shit? i would say the latter. why? companies and people have no incentive to put quality information on the net. every once in a while you get a type of person who wants to put useful information online, so he does it for fun (i consider myself this sort of person) -- but as america online explodes in size, this person is becoming more and more rare. private companies see the net primarily as a tool for self-promotion; so rather than putting good information they produce online, they put snippets. just my thoughts, steve ______________________ steven morgan friedman http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~smfriedm Mean People Suck From books-owner Wed May 8 22:17:01 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA55056 for books-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 22:17:00 GMT Received: from central.cis.upenn.edu (CENTRAL.CIS.UPENN.EDU [158.130.12.2]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA85509 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 18:16:55 -0400 Received: from blue.seas.upenn.edu (sameerm@BLUE.SEAS.UPENN.EDU [130.91.5.148]) by central.cis.upenn.edu (8.6.12/UPenn 1.4) with ESMTP id SAA15895 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 18:18:22 -0400 Received: by blue.seas.upenn.edu id SAA29312; Wed, 8 May 1996 18:18:20 -0400 Posted-Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 18:18:20 -0400 Message-Id: <199605082218.SAA29312@blue.seas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: Internet is *god* To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (CLST 158 listserv) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 18:18:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Sameer Y. Merchant" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1294 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk : : From: smfriedm@sas.upenn.edu (s. morgan friedman) : Subject: Re: Internet is *god* : Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 17:17:22 -0400 (EDT) : : Failing not to be unsuccessful in not being unclear, SALMAN NIAZ wrote: : * Internet is all-knowing. It is fair to say, internet is bringing together ^^^^^^^^^^^ : * all the knowledge of all humans together. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ : : i must challenge these assertions. : : there is, i maintain, very little information on the internet. there are : many classic books (well, those whose copyrights have expired) and tons of : computer-related information, and a little bit other useful stuff. in the : great scheme of things, this is very little information. Besides: (all-knowing != all the knowledge of all humans together) What the Internet 'knows' is limited by what we (humanity as a whole) know. In most religions that I am familiar with, the Supreme Being is generally thought of as omniscient. So unless the state of Artificial Intelligence technology changes dramaically, you'll probably have a hard time converting a very large part of the world's population. : [...] personal homepages give the illusion of an audience [...] Unless you put a counter on your page. :) There goes the illusion. Sameer From books-owner Wed May 8 22:18:34 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA92517 for books-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 22:18:33 GMT Received: from fdemocracy.org (rourkem@EMPYREAN.RESNET.UPENN.EDU [130.91.172.118]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA30560 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 18:18:30 -0400 Received: (from rourkem@localhost) by fdemocracy.org (8.7.4/8.7.3) id SAA04337 for books@ccat.sas; Wed, 8 May 1996 18:19:56 -0400 From: Rourke McNamara Message-Id: <199605082219.SAA04337@fdemocracy.org> Subject: Re: Internet is *god* To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 18:19:56 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk At some point earlier stephan friedman wrote: >Failing not to be unsuccessful in not being unclear, SALMAN NIAZ wrote: >* Internet is all-knowing. It is fair to say, internet is bringing together >* all the knowledge of all humans together. > >i must challenge these assertions. Both of them? The first - "Internet is all-knowing." - wasn't a serious assertion. Salman was trying to make a point. He was comparing the 'net to a god. The second was his serious assertion. It seems quite valid to me. >there is, i maintain, very little information on the internet. there are >many classic books (well, those whose copyrights have expired) and tons of >computer-related information, and a little bit other useful stuff. in the >great scheme of things, this is very little information. > >so what is all this on the internet we're always hearing about? tons of >truly useless pages. people listing all their CDs. people with personal >homepages babbling about everything (everyone loves to hear themselves >speak, and personal homepages give the illusion of an audience). tons of >pornography. tons of shit. Not true. There's lots of information on the net. There was a whole lot of information even before the web came about. For computer-related stuff the web can't be beaten. There's information on just about everything having to do with computers. And its all free and more up to date than anything printed. And, occasionally, the presentation makes it alot easier to read and deal with. There's information on non-computer related stuff, too. There are encyclopedia and dictionaries. There are FAQ files for just about any topic you can think of - take inline skating for example. The FAQ on skating is far more informative than any *four* books on the subject I was able to find at a bookstore. For news its hard to beat Clarinet. And, all this information is currently available for free and can be found using one of dozens of available web robots. >the question is: is there more "content" being put on the internet, or is >the trend for more shit? i would say the latter. why? companies and >people have no incentive to put quality information on the net. every once >in a while you get a type of person who wants to put useful information >online, so he does it for fun (i consider myself this sort of person) -- >but as america online explodes in size, this person is becoming more and >more rare. private companies see the net primarily as a tool for >self-promotion; so rather than putting good information they produce >online, they put snippets. There _is_ still stuff that isn't availble becuase on the web becuase people are looking to make money selling it. But that'll change. When digital cash and microtransactions become reaslistic many companies will start to sell information on the web. The cost of making the articles and such available is extremely low and if they can charge as low as a few pennies then it won't be worth it for people to copy their materials. Advertising would be the real issue, but that'll change too. Seeing a news articles with an advertisement in the middle wouldn't be too surprising... Of course I don't think that this means the 'net is a god. It might eventually be Omniscient. It might even be close to be Omnipotent sometime in the next century. Its hardly Omnibenevolent, though. And it certainly isn't _self-aware_. Most religions that I've learned about have gods that are self-aware. Not too many worship simple objects. From books-owner Thu May 9 05:31:08 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA84237 for books-outgoing; Thu, 9 May 1996 05:31:06 GMT Received: from pulm1.accessone.com (root@pulm1.accessone.com [198.68.191.10]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA50184 for ; Thu, 9 May 1996 01:31:03 -0400 Received: from [206.213.67.109] (annex4-67.accessone.com) by pulm1.accessone.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00938; Wed, 8 May 96 22:34:25 PDT Message-Id: <9605090534.AA00938@pulm1.accessone.com> To: Rourke McNamara , "books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu" Subject: Re: Internet is *god* Date: Wed, 08 May 96 22:32:10 -0500 From: "David A. Norwood" X-Mailer: E-Mail Connection v2.5.03 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk -- [ From: David A. Norwood * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- I hope that the the noun god or God has not lost its creator element. Might we one day worship the internet as our creator? While "fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge" (Proverbs ??:??) All knowledge (information) is in no way God. But I agree, the net is large and the concept holds greater validity when the net makes it possible for all people to be as one. Is this closer to what we might find on the future-net. What would a Jesuit Priest have to say on this issue? :) David. BTW - All you old BOOKS folk - I just got my thumbs up from Princeton and will be hailing from PTS in the fall. From books-owner Thu May 9 06:12:00 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA69680 for books-outgoing; Thu, 9 May 1996 06:11:59 GMT Received: from central.cis.upenn.edu (CENTRAL.CIS.UPENN.EDU [158.130.12.2]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA74027 for ; Thu, 9 May 1996 02:11:56 -0400 Received: from blue.seas.upenn.edu (mniaz@BLUE.SEAS.UPENN.EDU [130.91.5.148]) by central.cis.upenn.edu (8.6.12/UPenn 1.4) with ESMTP id CAA28422 for ; Thu, 9 May 1996 02:13:22 -0400 Received: by blue.seas.upenn.edu id CAA28237; Thu, 9 May 1996 02:13:21 -0400 Posted-Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 02:13:21 -0400 Message-Id: <199605090613.CAA28237@blue.seas.upenn.edu> Subject: god To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 02:13:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "SALMAN NIAZ" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1581 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk -- This is a definition of God that i found -- /sn/ God God (grd), divinity of the three great monotheistic religions, JUDAISM, CHRISTIANITY, and ISLAM, as well as many other world religions. In the Old Testament various names for God are used, Elohim most commonly. The four-letter form YHWH is the most celebrated; the Hebrews considered it ineffable and in reading substituted the name Adonai [my Lord]. The reconstruction Jehovah was based on a mistake, and the form Yahweh is not now regarded as reliable. The general conception of God is that of an infinite being (often a personality but not necessarily anthropomorphic) who is supremely good, who created the world, who knows all and can do all, who is transcendent over and immanent in the world, and who loves all human beings. (The Old Testament concept of God is less unified and consistent.) The majority of Christians believe God lived on earth in the flesh as Jesus Christ (see JESUS; TRINITY). Muslims call God Allah, the name of God in Arabic, the language of the Koran, but it is also used by Arabic-speaking Christians. The several famous arguments for the existence of God are based on causality, design and purpose in the universe, and the nature of divine being; many have held, however, that God's existence must be accepted on faith. Some philosophers have extended the name God to such concepts as world soul, cosmic energy, and mind. The Concise Columbia Encyclopedia is licensed from Columbia University Press. Copyright ) 1995 by Columbia University Press. All rights reserved. From books-owner Thu May 9 07:16:31 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA74228 for books-outgoing; Thu, 9 May 1996 07:16:29 GMT Received: from netnews.upenn.edu (NETNEWS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.35.31]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id DAA69871 for ; Thu, 9 May 1996 03:16:23 -0400 Received: (from news@localhost) by netnews.upenn.edu (8.7.4/8.7.3) id DAA05638; Thu, 9 May 1996 03:17:49 -0400 (EDT) To: mod-upenn-classics-cultbook@netnews.upenn.edu Path: blue.seas.upenn.edu!mniaz From: mniaz@blue.seas.upenn.edu (SALMAN NIAZ) Newsgroups: upenn.classics.cultbook Subject: URL of Project Date: 9 May 1996 07:17:47 GMT Organization: University of Pennsylvania Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4ms66r$l8c@netnews.upenn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: blue.seas.upenn.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2-upenn1.3] Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk The URL of my poject is http://futures.wharton.upenn.edu/~niaz00/relig~1.htm It is still in the proces of *evolution* Comments welcome /sn/ From books-owner Thu May 9 17:40:37 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA66263 for books-outgoing; Thu, 9 May 1996 17:40:36 GMT Received: from futures.wharton.upenn.edu (FUTURES.WHARTON.UPENN.EDU [130.91.163.132]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA91597 for ; Thu, 9 May 1996 13:40:33 -0400 Received: (from correa69@localhost) by futures.wharton.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA16040 for books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu; Thu, 9 May 1996 13:41:58 -0400 From: David Correa Message-Id: <199605091741.NAA16040@futures.wharton.upenn.edu> Subject: url To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 13:41:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 194 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk you can find my project at http://futures.wharton.upenn.edu/~correa69 I am still working on it so please excuse the spelling and its length. As always comments are more than welcome. david From books-owner Fri May 10 03:40:41 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA14504 for books-outgoing; Fri, 10 May 1996 03:40:40 GMT Received: from central.cis.upenn.edu (CENTRAL.CIS.UPENN.EDU [158.130.12.2]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA84386 for ; Thu, 9 May 1996 23:40:37 -0400 Received: from widget.seas.upenn.edu (sameerm@WIDGET.SEAS.UPENN.EDU [130.91.4.103]) by central.cis.upenn.edu (8.6.12/UPenn 1.4) with ESMTP id XAA18740 for ; Thu, 9 May 1996 23:42:03 -0400 Received: (from sameerm@localhost) by widget.seas.upenn.edu (8.6.10) id XAA10980 for books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu; Thu, 9 May 1996 23:42:01 -0400 Posted-Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 23:42:01 -0400 Message-Id: <199605100342.XAA10980@widget.seas.upenn.edu> To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (CLST 158 listserv) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 23:42:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Sameer Y. Merchant" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1588 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk There is an excellent article about anonymity on the Net at http://swissnet.ai.mit.edu/6095/articles/anonymity/short-pieces/new-scientist-mar1195.html Below is a portion of the article that talks about how anonymity relates to copyright issues. Sameer --- Taylor identified laws on the protection of intellectual property as already under threat from developments on the Internet, and in need of international action. May believes the time is coming when the whole notion of ownership of information will need to be rethought. He sees parallels between the efforts of governments and companies to keep information to themselves with those of medieval guilds. "Medieval guilds believed that they owned the knowledge of how to shoe a horse, for example," he says. "That's very like the modern system of patents and copyrights." But the guilds fell victim to the arrival of printing and the spread of literacy, because knowledge could be passed freely to any number of people. There is even a modern example of how the Internet can make an impact on "restricted" information. In the US, there are laws against selling locksmiths' tools to the public. But one newsgroup has seen anonymous postings of lock-picking methods. When the editor of a locksmith journal plugged into the Internet last year, he was appalled to find trade secrets being openly discussed. May is unimpressed. "In the long term, I think 'copyright' as we know it today is dead, just as the information 'owned' by the guilds ceased to be owned by them after several decades or so of books being available," he says. From books-owner Fri May 10 04:14:33 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA36933 for books-outgoing; Fri, 10 May 1996 04:14:32 GMT Received: from netnews.upenn.edu (NETNEWS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.35.31]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA11072 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 00:14:29 -0400 Received: (from news@localhost) by netnews.upenn.edu (8.7.4/8.7.3) id AAA15061; Fri, 10 May 1996 00:15:55 -0400 (EDT) To: mod-upenn-classics-cultbook@netnews.upenn.edu Path: mail1.sas.upenn.edu!bwyche From: bwyche@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Benjamin Wyche) Newsgroups: upenn.classics.cultbook,upenn.free-speech Subject: riot urrrl Date: 10 May 1996 04:15:54 GMT Organization: University of Pennsylvania Lines: 29 Message-ID: <4muftq$eee@netnews.upenn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: mail1.sas.upenn.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2-upenn1.3] Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk not to cause a riot, but the url for my project about Penn's activism on the cda at: http://dolphin.upenn.edu/~fatf/netspeech-forumI.html is temporarily incomplete -- i'll be working it up to quality standards over the next couple of weeks and beyond that, the course of the summer. i'd like to see it get published in the 2nd issue of the "other voices" journal. one feature of the url i'm playing with is i incorporating the online dp into the story of the cda. i'm elming them for permission to use their articles now. check out what's up already. in the meantime, i need to secure a steady source of income for the summer, and take care of some business at the courthouse -- namely the final hearing date for the cda trial. it's at 7th and market at the federal courthouse. i'll be going between 11:30 & noon. come on down... have a memory-making summer, ben wyche 215-417-6972 From books-owner Fri May 10 04:20:23 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA14538 for books-outgoing; Fri, 10 May 1996 04:20:19 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (dbryant@MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA75717 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 00:20:16 -0400 Received: (from dbryant@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.4/SAS 8.05) id AAA29407 for books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu; Fri, 10 May 1996 00:21:41 -0400 (EDT) From: dbryant@sas.upenn.edu (Dawn M Bryant) Posted-Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 00:21:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605100421.AAA29407@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: URL To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 00:21:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk Hey Guys, The URL for my project is: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~dbryant/backup.html I should be finished with the conclusion by noon tommorrow. Good Luck Guys Dawn Bryant dbryant@mail.sas From books-owner Fri May 10 06:48:29 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA43137 for books-outgoing; Fri, 10 May 1996 06:48:28 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (smfriedm@MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA77948 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 02:48:25 -0400 Received: (from smfriedm@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.4/SAS 8.05) id CAA25969 for books@ccat; Fri, 10 May 1996 02:49:50 -0400 (EDT) From: smfriedm@sas.upenn.edu (s. morgan friedman) Posted-Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 02:49:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605100649.CAA25969@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: my project To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 02:49:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk it's finally done!!! :) there are two URLs associated with my project, which was to redesign the penn web site. the first is my proposal for a new site: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~morgan/penn/ i also wrote up a page on why my site is better than the current one. (there is logic behind it all; not just pretty links.) the URL of that page is: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~morgan/penn/why.html also, as i posted a few days ago, i have been keeping a list of everyone's projects, at: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~morgan/penn/jod.html let me know what you think of my pages, good or bad :) steve ______________________ steven morgan friedman http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~smfriedm Mean People Suck From books-owner Fri May 10 10:00:52 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA41876 for books-outgoing; Fri, 10 May 1996 10:00:51 GMT Received: from central.cis.upenn.edu (CENTRAL.CIS.UPENN.EDU [158.130.12.2]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA23695 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 06:00:48 -0400 Received: from widget.seas.upenn.edu (sameerm@WIDGET.SEAS.UPENN.EDU [130.91.4.103]) by central.cis.upenn.edu (8.6.12/UPenn 1.4) with ESMTP id GAA24272 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 06:02:13 -0400 Received: (from sameerm@localhost) by widget.seas.upenn.edu (8.6.10) id GAA12503 for books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu; Fri, 10 May 1996 06:02:11 -0400 Posted-Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 06:02:11 -0400 Message-Id: <199605101002.GAA12503@widget.seas.upenn.edu> Subject: Cool site To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (CLST 158 listserv) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 06:02:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Sameer Y. Merchant" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 93 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk Check out http://www.clinton96.org/ It's page ala www.whitehouse.net, only funnier. Sameer From books-owner Fri May 10 10:06:31 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA69845 for books-outgoing; Fri, 10 May 1996 10:06:31 GMT Received: from central.cis.upenn.edu (CENTRAL.CIS.UPENN.EDU [158.130.12.2]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA41936 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 06:06:28 -0400 Received: from widget.seas.upenn.edu (sameerm@WIDGET.SEAS.UPENN.EDU [130.91.4.103]) by central.cis.upenn.edu (8.6.12/UPenn 1.4) with ESMTP id GAA24339 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 06:07:54 -0400 Received: (from sameerm@localhost) by widget.seas.upenn.edu (8.6.10) id GAA12524 for books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu; Fri, 10 May 1996 06:07:52 -0400 Posted-Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 06:07:52 -0400 Message-Id: <199605101007.GAA12524@widget.seas.upenn.edu> Subject: Cool site To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (CLST 158 listserv) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 06:07:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "Sameer Y. Merchant" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 113 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk Oh, and follow the red ribbon icon (on the intro screen) to find out all about the Red Ribbon Campaign. Sameer From books-owner Fri May 10 11:28:46 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA38358 for books-outgoing; Fri, 10 May 1996 11:28:45 GMT Received: (from jod@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA69841 for books; Fri, 10 May 1996 07:28:43 -0400 From: "James O'Donnell" Message-Id: <199605101128.HAA69841@ccat.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: last call! To: books Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 07:28:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 200 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk Everybody come back around one more time and post your URL when you can announce it's *done*! They'll all be linked to the course home page so you can check each other's pages out easily that way. From books-owner Fri May 10 18:54:26 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA66393 for books-outgoing; Fri, 10 May 1996 18:54:20 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (aromano@MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA59475 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 14:54:17 -0400 Received: (from aromano@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.4/SAS 8.05) id OAA17911 for books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu; Fri, 10 May 1996 14:55:42 -0400 (EDT) From: aromano@sas.upenn.edu (Allen J Romano) Posted-Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 14:55:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605101855.OAA17911@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: URL for my site To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 14:55:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk The URL for my finished project is http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~aromano/cultproj.html I hope you all get a chance to visit it. I have a fair number of links within "the text" and I would suggest that you look at where the link goes before you click. The ones that lead to something like "notef1" are safe, but some of the others might send you off to some of the sites themselves when that's not where you want to go. Anyway, I hope you all enjoy your summers. Bye for now. Allen From books-owner Fri May 10 21:12:48 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA31505 for books-outgoing; Fri, 10 May 1996 21:12:47 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (pasterna@MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA16908; Fri, 10 May 1996 17:12:44 -0400 Received: (from pasterna@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.4/SAS 8.05) id RAA05139; Fri, 10 May 1996 17:14:09 -0400 (EDT) From: pasterna@sas.upenn.edu (Karen E Pasternack) Posted-Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 17:14:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605102114.RAA05139@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: last call! To: jod@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (James O'Donnell) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 17:14:08 -0400 (EDT) Cc: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu In-Reply-To: <199605101128.HAA69841@ccat.sas.upenn.edu> from "James O'Donnell" at May 10, 96 07:28:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk My pages are finished. I have 2. My essay is posted at http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~pasterna/cyberlove.html You can get to my page of links from there! Have a *virtual* summer! -Karen -- Karen Pasternack University of Pennsylvania '98 215-417-0553 Minority Affairs Beat Reporter Daily Pennsylvanian 898-6585 From books-owner Fri May 10 21:55:01 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA73385 for books-outgoing; Fri, 10 May 1996 21:55:00 GMT Received: from mail1.sas.upenn.edu (dbryant@MAIL1.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.32]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA81059 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 17:54:57 -0400 Received: (from dbryant@localhost) by mail1.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.4/SAS 8.05) id RAA04151 for books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu; Fri, 10 May 1996 17:56:22 -0400 (EDT) From: dbryant@sas.upenn.edu (Dawn M Bryant) Posted-Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 17:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605102156.RAA04151@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: URL To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 17:56:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk Well, I've finished my project, finally. Here is the URL: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~dbryant/backup.html Everyone have a great summer, and if anyone has any suggestions on ways to cahnge the page email me at :lbryant@mail.state.tn.us Thanks, Dawn Bryant From books-owner Fri May 10 22:30:41 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA31517 for books-outgoing; Fri, 10 May 1996 22:30:40 GMT Received: from fdemocracy.org (rourkem@EMPYREAN.RESNET.UPENN.EDU [130.91.172.118]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA23573 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 18:30:37 -0400 Received: (from rourkem@localhost) by fdemocracy.org (8.7.4/8.7.3) id SAA05246 for books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu; Fri, 10 May 1996 18:32:02 -0400 From: Rourke McNamara Message-Id: <199605102232.SAA05246@fdemocracy.org> Subject: My Paper is at... To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 18:32:02 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk http://fdemocracy.org/~rourkem/clst158 The paper is on the future of the Internet. I hope everyone has a good summer. Good luck to those who havn't finished their papers yet. Rourke From books-owner Fri May 10 22:40:18 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA31562 for books-outgoing; Fri, 10 May 1996 22:40:16 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (smfriedm@MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA16451 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 18:40:14 -0400 Received: (from smfriedm@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.4/SAS 8.05) id SAA28062; Fri, 10 May 1996 18:41:38 -0400 (EDT) From: smfriedm@sas.upenn.edu (s. morgan friedman) Posted-Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 18:41:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605102241.SAA28062@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: URL To: dbryant@sas.upenn.edu (Dawn M Bryant) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 18:41:37 -0400 (EDT) Cc: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu In-Reply-To: <199605102156.RAA04151@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> from "Dawn M Bryant" at May 10, 96 05:56:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk i'm all done. yay!! :) the proposed penn web pages: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~morgan/penn/ reflections on the pages: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~morgan/penn/why.html ______________________ steven morgan friedman http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~smfriedm Mean People Suck From books-owner Sat May 11 01:31:53 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA18454 for books-outgoing; Sat, 11 May 1996 01:31:52 GMT Received: from shiva1.cac.washington.edu (shiva1.cac.washington.edu [140.142.100.201]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA66577 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 21:31:49 -0400 Received: by shiva1.cac.washington.edu (5.65+UW96.04/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA07788; Fri, 10 May 96 18:33:13 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 18:33:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Linda Wright To: Dawn M Bryant Cc: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Subject: Re: URL In-Reply-To: <199605102156.RAA04151@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk Like your work!, but can I turn off that script? I'm loathe to be such a bad netizen (I know better), and running that between the UW and UPenn really exacerbates a bad situation between the two coasts. -Linda On Fri, 10 May 1996, Dawn M Bryant wrote: > Well, > I've finished my project, finally. Here is the URL: > http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~dbryant/backup.html > > Everyone have a great summer, and if anyone has any suggestions > on ways to cahnge the page email me at :lbryant@mail.state.tn.us > Thanks, > Dawn Bryant > From books-owner Sat May 11 02:20:13 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA94490 for books-outgoing; Sat, 11 May 1996 02:20:12 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (smfriedm@MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA46357 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 22:20:09 -0400 Received: (from smfriedm@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.4/SAS 8.05) id WAA11400; Fri, 10 May 1996 22:21:33 -0400 (EDT) From: smfriedm@sas.upenn.edu (s. morgan friedman) Posted-Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 22:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605110221.WAA11400@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: URL for my site To: aromano@sas.upenn.edu (Allen J Romano) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 22:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Cc: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu In-Reply-To: <199605101855.OAA17911@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> from "Allen J Romano" at May 10, 96 02:55:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk so i just visited your page using my favorite browser (the only one i generally use), lynx, and what do i see? a blank page! hmph :) ahhh, frames, frames, frames! damn, i'm going to have to use netscape now... :) steve Failing not to be unsuccessful in not being unclear, Allen J Romano wrote: * * The URL for my finished project is * * http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~aromano/cultproj.html * * I hope you all get a chance to visit it. I have a fair number * of links within "the text" and I would suggest that you look at * where the link goes before you click. The ones that lead to something * like "notef1" are safe, but some of the others might send you off to * some of the sites themselves when that's not where you want to go. * * Anyway, I hope you all enjoy your summers. Bye for now. * * Allen * ______________________ steven morgan friedman http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~smfriedm Mean People Suck From books-owner Sat May 11 03:48:37 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA16808 for books-outgoing; Sat, 11 May 1996 03:48:36 GMT Received: from central.cis.upenn.edu (CENTRAL.CIS.UPENN.EDU [158.130.12.2]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA23969 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 23:48:33 -0400 Received: from red.seas.upenn.edu (mniaz@RED.SEAS.UPENN.EDU [130.91.5.147]) by central.cis.upenn.edu (8.6.12/UPenn 1.4) with ESMTP id XAA07412 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 23:49:59 -0400 Received: by red.seas.upenn.edu id XAA05590; Fri, 10 May 1996 23:49:58 -0400 Posted-Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 23:49:58 -0400 Message-Id: <199605110349.XAA05590@red.seas.upenn.edu> Subject: Project To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 23:49:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "SALMAN NIAZ" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 177 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk The URL is, as i posted earlier: http://futures.wharton.upenn.edu/~niaz00/relig~1.htm I would remain most open to suggestions any time salman Have a great summer, everyone From books-owner Sat May 11 03:56:49 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA36885 for books-outgoing; Sat, 11 May 1996 03:56:48 GMT Received: from central.cis.upenn.edu (CENTRAL.CIS.UPENN.EDU [158.130.12.2]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA10000 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 23:56:46 -0400 Received: from widget.seas.upenn.edu (sameerm@WIDGET.SEAS.UPENN.EDU [130.91.4.103]) by central.cis.upenn.edu (8.6.12/UPenn 1.4) with ESMTP id XAA07529 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 23:58:11 -0400 Received: (from sameerm@localhost) by widget.seas.upenn.edu (8.6.10) id XAA19269 for books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu; Fri, 10 May 1996 23:58:09 -0400 Posted-Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 23:58:09 -0400 Message-Id: <199605110358.XAA19269@widget.seas.upenn.edu> Subject: URL To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (CLST 158 listserv) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 23:58:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Sameer Y. Merchant" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 341 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk My page has moved ever so slightly from it's original URL, But fear not that your links have been rendered obsolete, Link http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~sameerm/geek.html as you always have, Demonstrate patience while it is 'Loading page...', It's there for a reason -- I think it's neat. Have a great summer (don't) break (anything), Sameer From books-owner Sat May 11 04:27:17 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA42221 for books-outgoing; Sat, 11 May 1996 04:27:14 GMT Received: from central.cis.upenn.edu (CENTRAL.CIS.UPENN.EDU [158.130.12.2]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA10216 for ; Sat, 11 May 1996 00:27:11 -0400 Received: from widget.seas.upenn.edu (sameerm@WIDGET.SEAS.UPENN.EDU [130.91.4.103]) by central.cis.upenn.edu (8.6.12/UPenn 1.4) with ESMTP id AAA07988 for ; Sat, 11 May 1996 00:28:37 -0400 Received: (from sameerm@localhost) by widget.seas.upenn.edu (8.6.10) id AAA19440 for books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu; Sat, 11 May 1996 00:28:35 -0400 Posted-Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 00:28:35 -0400 Message-Id: <199605110428.AAA19440@widget.seas.upenn.edu> Subject: Names on the Net To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (CLST 158 listserv) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 00:28:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Sameer Y. Merchant" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 4252 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk Forwarded message: : Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 02:48:13 -0400 (EDT) : From: ISP-TV Central Contact : To: fight-censorship+@andrew.cmu.edu : Subject: What happened to peta.org (People Eating Tasty Animals) (fwd) : : : ---------- Forwarded message ---------- : Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 02:23:11 -0400 : From: Mike Doughney : Subject: [stuff] Re: What happened to peta.org (People Eating Tasty Animals) : Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals,comp.org.eff.talk,alt.culture.www,bit.listserv.lawsch-l,comp.protocols.tcp-ip.domains,misc.legal,alt.sysadmin.recovery,comp.infosystems.www.providers,comp.unix.admin : : -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- : : In article <4mlqn1$3ld@nova.umuc.edu>, : 5121 Student 01 wrote: : > : >There used to be a pretty amusing web site called : >People Eating Tasty Animals which was located at : >www.peta.org This past weekend, I tried to access it : >and couldn't. I was able to access it about a week : >ago. Have the thugs at peta done away with the domain? : > : >Does anybody have any clues as to what happened? : : After completely ignoring my request for an extension of time, the : InterNIC has placed the 'peta.org' domain on "hold" in keeping with : their so-called "Domain Name Dispute Policy" that serves as nothing : other than an arbitrary domain name confiscation policy. : : The page remains available at http://mtd.com/tasty, and it will be : updated shortly with much more material including details about the : current state of affairs. : : As for the 'thugs', "PeTA" is not at the moment the cause of the : problem. The problem is a large government contractor that has : created a domain name policy that basically gives the small : businessman, individual or group no rights whatsoever when faced with : a slow-moving, well-financed company or organization that just now : wakes up to the fact that the Internet just might be a good medium for : them to get involved in. Just ask the folks at roadrunner.com, whose : 500 or so users stand to get screwed by Warner Brothers, without any : compensation whatsoever for their inconvenience. : : You might also ask me about a certain Cleveland lawnmower manufacturer : with no current net presence that, given this policy, may come along : at any time and arrange for the confiscation of my personal domain : consisting of my own initials, mtd.com, and which has already : indicated to me their intent of being the "only MTD on the Internet." : : This so-called "Domain Name Dispute Policy" was fabricated in a vacuum : where only the interests of large, well-financed trademark holders : were represented. It has no basis in trademark or any other law, : neither does it reflect the traditional methods by which the : Internet's standards and practices have been arrived at through : example, consensus, and cooperation of all, and not just a small : well-financed subset of, Internet providers and users. : : Meanwhile, the InterNIC's action against me, and its policy, clearly : does not reflect the fact that parodies, or social and political : commentary, which may include trademarks or portions of copyrighted : material, are strongly protected forms of speech in the United States, : and its action here may have interfered with my right to create and : display such works. : : I now understand that the InterNIC is considering an arbitrary rewrite : of its policy, again without obtaining the input of many affected : groups and individuals. : : Anyone interested in participating in an organization dedicated to : promoting the interests of the small or individual domain name holder, : and to aid in the creation of a sane domain name policy, is invited to : mail me at domains@sadie.digex.net. : : : : -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- : Version: 2.6.2 : : iQB1AwUBMY7ro39g9f+5TwWtAQG1lAL/XzqYGHGzvbstsG3AZZs0K0vpwZZ7Ds5c : PJUCxgubDS9PQdqs9NGjvNj3vQpgJwbvQlVd6PmLpZqFngGqF06Y5qpwCsZsCbXa : sZfApbJ0tsr2gb9evNPG9sMJmO3t7ZHX : =yPod : -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- : ---------------------------------------------------------------------- : To remove yourself from the stuff mailing list send a message : containing "unsubscribe stuff" to majordomo@ss2.digex.net. : : From books-owner Sat May 11 11:42:44 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA77430 for books-outgoing; Sat, 11 May 1996 11:42:43 GMT Received: from dept.english.upenn.edu (DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU [165.123.12.191]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA53617 for ; Sat, 11 May 1996 07:42:40 -0400 Received: from [130.91.191.103] (HRSA616.RESNET.UPENN.EDU [130.91.191.103]) by dept.english.upenn.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA38368 for ; Sat, 11 May 1996 07:49:49 -0400 Message-Id: <199605111149.HAA38368@dept.english.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 07:48:07 -0500 To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu From: snorman@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sarah Norman) Subject: Re: last call Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk Sorry, everybody -- forgot to re-post URL: http://www.english.upenn.edu.edu/~snorman scroll down to bottom of page, click on "Cultures of the Book Project" love y'all, have a great summer!!!! Sarah ------------------------------------------------------------- Sarah, A Norman snorman@dept.english.upenn.edu http://www.english.upenn.edu/~snorman ---<--<@ "One must learn to be just morbid enough." -Kenneth Burke, "Collected Poems" From books-owner Sat May 11 13:35:24 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA40724 for books-outgoing; Sat, 11 May 1996 13:35:23 GMT Received: (from jod@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA77327 for books; Sat, 11 May 1996 09:35:21 -0400 From: "James O'Donnell" Message-Id: <199605111335.JAA77327@ccat.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: keep the high tech To: books Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 09:35:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 499 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk Fully understanding that frames and java make life difficult, I use my professorial authority to decree that those enhancements stay there: we're *supposed* to push the envelope. A non-liveware member of the list has already written to say that two pages from the course with those enhancements are pretty neat. I've collected all your "papers" now: now I just have to go and read them! Many thanks for a continuously interesting course and a lively and impressive set of projects! jo'd From books-owner Sat May 11 17:19:17 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA66787 for books-outgoing; Sat, 11 May 1996 17:19:16 GMT Received: from icg.resnet.upenn.edu (mengwong@ICG.RESNET.UPENN.EDU [130.91.192.190]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA60126 for ; Sat, 11 May 1996 13:19:14 -0400 Received: (from mengwong@localhost) by icg.resnet.upenn.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id NAA18730 for books@ccat.sas; Sat, 11 May 1996 13:20:39 -0400 Message-Id: <199605111720.NAA18730@icg.resnet.upenn.edu> Subject: Neil Gaiman's Universe: the Sandman To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 13:20:38 -0400 (EDT) From: mengwong@icg.resnet.upenn.edu (Meng Weng Wong) Content-Type: text Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk i'd given the url to prof jod, but didn't post to the list: http://icg.resnet.upenn.edu/sandman/ username sandman password sandman (if it weren't password-protected, i'd stand to meet more of DC Comics's lawyers than i'd really want.) certain areas will continue to be embellished; and there's a fairly major essay that's still being expanded, so make this last on your list -- i'm still working hard. cheers meng From books-owner Mon May 13 01:20:25 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA83706 for books-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 01:20:20 GMT Received: from mail1.sas.upenn.edu (smfriedm@MAIL1.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.32]) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA53736 for ; Sun, 12 May 1996 21:20:03 -0400 Received: (from smfriedm@localhost) by mail1.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.4/SAS 8.05) id VAA05907 for books@ccat; Sun, 12 May 1996 21:21:27 -0400 (EDT) From: smfriedm@sas.upenn.edu (s. morgan friedman) Posted-Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 21:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605130121.VAA05907@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: oxford ponders role in age of internet To: books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 21:21:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk "oxford ponders role in age of internet" http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/960506/compute/stories/oxford_1.html so oxford's following our lead, eh? steve ______________________ steven morgan friedman http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~smfriedm Mean People Suck From books-owner Mon May 13 22:07:54 1996 Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA71127 for books-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 22:07:46 GMT Received: (from jod@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA47567 for books; Mon, 13 May 1996 18:07:42 -0400 From: "James O'Donnell" Message-Id: <199605132207.SAA47567@ccat.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: The party's over (not!) To: books Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 18:07:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 795 Sender: owner-books@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Precedence: bulk A note to all on the BOOKS list with thanks for an interesting and successful term. The projects from the course are posted at http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/jod/texts/158.projects.html -- enjoy! The list will now go into hibernation until fall, when the course will resurrect as a freshman seminar at Penn. My policy is that I never remove anyone from this list except for gross bad behavior and, despite several worthy attempts, no one has yet achieved that distinction. If you *want* to get off the list, send mail to listserv@ccat.sas.upenn.edu with no subject: line and the message "unsubscribe books". BE KIND TO YOUR E-FRIENDS AND DO NOT SEND THAT MESSAGE TO BOOKS@CCAT! Finally, from Seattle books-ter Rebecca Staffel, a truly daffy URL: http://www.ua.com/games/zippy/ jo'd